Debate over religious beliefs

[T3KTONIT]

so if u don't believe in Sikhism which is complete truth, the way to God is that u practice the true part of your faith, not the falsehood present in your faith

Oh, so it's like the concept of buddhism, man should remove desires, and should get to the state where he does only the good for himself and for everyone. like in buddhism you have to follow 5 precepts if you want to be a moral man: no killing, no stealing, no lying, no sexual misconduct, and no intoxication.
buddha says that as long as you keep thinking, as long as you're consciouss of your thoughts, as long as you are examining your thoughts critically and judging them carefully, you will stay a moral man, and you will live a happy life.

But what u said about sikhism is really problematic, it's okay for people to practice their faiths, but they should not impose it on others, for example islam is limiting humans very much, and if muslims see that other people have other faiths, they wouldn't interact with them as they interact with a normal muslim. But we are humans, we are born to cooperate with each other and help each other in everything in life, and these faiths limit us from doing so.. they are tearing us apart from each other.
I personally think that religions should be based on humanity, but if we come to see these religions they are not human at all!!! i mean.... islam says that YOU CAN MARRY A BABY... IT LITERALLY PERMITS CHILD MARRAIGE, LOOOL????

 

[T3KTONIT]

Well, As a Muslim, I'll say that Prophet Muhammed didn't wrote Quran himself, He didn't knew how to read or write.

He was just vistited by Jibrael who then told him the words of Allah, and then those were the scriptures who used to write it down on leaves, stones and such pieces. After the death of Prophet, Quran wasn't compiled, it was then later compiled into a single book called Quran.

No offence, but I don't even accept Sikhism as a religion, its just a self made religion.

they say muhammed didn't write the quran in the stories, but he was the one narrating the verses to abdullah who actually didn't believe he was a prophet, because sometimes when abdullah was writing the verses, muhamad would tell the verses and then abdullah would tell him to modify them a little bit and mohamed agreed to that, but that made abdullah to doubt the prophecy of mohamed because if those were god's words he wouldn't agree to modify them, that's why he left islam and eventually rejoined it because he was about to die.

if u just read the invasions of mohammed, i'm sure u will be shocked, it's very fucking inhuman... the goals of the invasions was only to kill people and take their money and their women(lol), there was no goal of sharing islam or anything.

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

[member=5679]T3K[/member]
That's why I said to practice to the true part of Islam, all the fundamentalist part is falsehood, and should not be practices, read the description I gave of a Muslim from guru granth sahib in the above posts, marrying a baby is again falsehood of Islam, if u want to be true Muslim, practice the truth. Quran has many good things but many false things, so the good should be implemented, that's why Sikhism came which is complete truth and according to us it is without falsehood, others might have a different perspective about our religion and we respect it.

Sikhism is a religion of 10 gurus who were the light of God according to us
Guru Arjan Dev was executed by extremist Muslims but his son, built a mosque for the poor Muslims who came to him and asked that they did not have a place to pray.
Guru tegh Bahadur the 9 th guru was approached by Hindus a completely different faith who asked him for help as they were being forcefully converted to Islam, so he went to Delhi and said to the muslim rulers that if u convert me to Islam then all Hindus shall follow, but Muslims failed and Guru tegh Bahadur was beheaded in Delhi.
So Sikhism always should for relgious equality. All Muslims are not false, we have Writings of some Muslims saints which gurus put in our scripture, also the foundation of The holiest site of Sikhism, the golden temple was laid by Sai Mia mir a Muslim saint, these Muslims were the good.ones who practices the truth and not the false stuff of islam

 

[ClausBear]

So i was raised in a non-religious family if you may. My father is atheist and my mother is buddhist. And never in my life have they been discussing anything or become mad at each other over religion, as far as i am concerned. Now in my country (Denmark) most kids has to confirm their belief to God as christians at the age of 13-14 i think it is. The thing though is that most kids here don't believe in God, but they choose to say so in order to have the party and gifts that comes afterwards. I myself said no, since i wouldn't be able to live with myself. I feel like you should respect other peoples beliefs and religion and not just shit on them like all my friends did. Now it's some time ago, and i still can't seem to figure out an answer. I think Agnostic atheist probaly would be the thing to fit me best.

Did you gents have any religion raising up?

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

Well, As a Muslim, I'll say that Prophet Muhammed didn't wrote Quran himself, He didn't knew how to read or write.

He was just vistited by Jibrael who then told him the words of Allah, and then those were the scriptures who used to write it down on leaves, stones and such pieces. After the death of Prophet, Quran wasn't compiled, it was then later compiled into a single book called Quran.

No offence, but I don't even accept Sikhism as a religion, its just a self made religion.

well I never said Islam is completely, I respect it, but there is some falsehood in it.
Well prove to me Sikhism is a self made religion, actually I respect your thoughts but I don't agree with them we just have different point of view, ppl like you give rise to conflicts.
You Muslims seriously need to promote the truh rather than shit and respect others beliefs.

 

[T3KTONIT]

well I never said Islam is completely, I respect it, but there is some falsehood in it.
Well prove to me Sikhism is a self made religion, actually I respect your thoughts but I don't agree with them we just have different point of view, ppl like you give rise to conflicts.
You Muslims seriously need to promote the truh rather than shit and respect others beliefs.

A muslim will basically tell you that in his belief, in the quran, it says that islam is the last and the only true religion, so basically i doubt that he would EVEN consider to look at the ideas of sikhism. because people are brainwashed they cannot think skeptically.

And yes i understand what u said that, we should take the good parts from religions right?, so it's a question of how u live life, because most of these good parts of these religions are simple and basic and any human being can think of them, no need for a holy man to explain that we shouldn't kill people, we shouldn't steal...  which again implies, according to sikhism that we don't even need these other religions...

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

A muslim will basically tell you that in his belief, in the quran, it says that islam is the last and the only true religion, so basically i doubt that he would EVEN consider to look at the ideas of sikhism. because people are brainwashed they cannot think skeptically.

And yes i understand what u said that, we should take the good parts from religions right?, so it's a question of how u live life, because most of these good parts of these religions are simple and basic and any human being can think of them, no need for a holy man to explain that we shouldn't kill people, we shouldn't steal...  which again implies, according to sikhism that we don't even need these other religions...

Nope, we need guys to teach the good stuff, what u think extremist Muslims will do the good stuff in Quran?
The Quran has a beautiful verse, "If u kill a human being for no reason, it is as if u have killed whole of humanity" but many Muslims don't believe this basic stuff, The same goes for Christian Bible too.
Both have good and bad stuff but the world Is filled with idiots who fail to understand, hence there we need holy man, but these days all holy men are fake even pope Francis as they don't allow women to become preacher in vatican.
So the gurus of Sikhism were the true guys according to my point of view

 

[Paul159]

Nope, we need guys to teach the good stuff, what u think extremist Muslims will do the good stuff in Quran?
The Quran has a beautiful verse, "If u kill a human being for no reason, it is as if u have killed whole of humanity" but many Muslims don't believe this basic stuff, The same goes for Christian Bible too.
Both have good and bad stuff but the world Is filled with idiots who fail to understand, hence there we need holy man, but these days all holy men are fake even pope Francis as they don't allow women to become preacher in vatican.
So the gurus of Sikhism were the true guys according to my point of view

* Bible teaches you only good things *

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

* Bible teaches you only good things *

1Corinthians 14:34 "Women should remain silent in a church"

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open

1 Chronicles 10:13 Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD.  He failed to obey the LORD’s command

Deutronomy 25:12
you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity
too many good things in bible listed here -_- also I would like you to tear off your school books related to science

there are good things too but bible only teaches good thing, that statement is wrong

 

[T3KTONIT]

Nope, we need guys to teach the good stuff, what u think extremist Muslims will do the good stuff in Quran?
The Quran has a beautiful verse, "If u kill a human being for no reason, it is as if u have killed whole of humanity" but many Muslims don't believe this basic stuff, The same goes for Christian Bible too.
Both have good and bad stuff but the world Is filled with idiots who fail to understand, hence there we need holy man, but these days all holy men are fake even pope Francis as they don't allow women to become preacher in vatican.
So the gurus of Sikhism were the true guys according to my point of view

Yeah so what is a holy man gonna do to make them follow these "basic verses that a 1yr old child could understand by himself"? is he gonna perform miracles? The problem here is ignorance... it is a social problem and i believe we can't solve it by just having a random man calling him "holy" and all he does is read out verses from the holy books and tell people to follow them... because at the end they won't do what their told to do... we tend to follow what's in these religions for our own good, OH I'M GONNA OBEY GOD SO DAT I GONE GO TO HEAVEN!, see, it's like the only reason u obey these laws is to go to heaven, you don't have any deep understandings of these laws... if you have a good understanding of them, and a deep consciousness about them i believe you wouldn't commit them at all... it's not like a holy man will come and give you these things, you can find them out yourself, i found them myself, and i questioned often is anybody aware of these things? does anybody really understand that they are conscious and they should love themselves and care for the others because others also feel like you so you shouldn't do what's bad for you to them?, these are basic things, we don't need god, or a holy man to explain them to us all what it takes is reflection, and putting effort on your thought to come up with these thoughts, i can right now, and i believe ANYBODY can make his own religion and according to his creativity he would come up with beautiful verses and wise laws and rules... and u can come up with fictional characters with a Great god that performed stupefying miracles, and tell awesome stories and stuff.

there are many philosophies to why people fail to understand or obey these laws, one of them says that human beings naturally tend to do the bad things, we are approx 7billion u can't expect all of us to do the good... but most of the time these "idiots" that fail to understand are ignorant/poor and haven't ever took the time to think about their existence, they are just following, i bet they haven't even read their Quran, they don't even know that there are falsehoods in it...

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

You need a awesome dude to end ignorance, And one year old kid cannot write those verses as guru granth sahib is not divided by chapters its divided my Music, 1400 pages of divine music. It's not about the message its about the bliss and experience one has by singing Guru granth sahib, 1 year old kid can't write such a divine poetry, not even great poets also according to my view
Also even if a 10-15 year old kid understands the message, will he really implement the message? Then how to implement it is also answered in the text. Bible consists if many stories, quran, then there might be something u ought to be missing what all they want to convey. If every holy man came and said be good people we would be hundreds of jesuses and many more religions but we only got 5-6 different ones only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3DktnGUgY

 

[T3KTONIT]

You need a awesome dude to end ignorance, And one year old kid cannot write those verses as guru granth sahib is not divided by chapters its divided my Music, 1400 pages of divine music. It's not about the message its about the bliss and experience one has by singing Guru granth sahib, 1 year old kid can't write such a divine poetry, not even great poets also according to my view

hmmmm music u say?, is it music or poetry... what do you mean cuz i don't understand. and ofcourse a 1yr old child can't write shit, but maybe he could understand them even though a 1yr old isn't mature enough to understand shit xD maybe my statement was out of place sorry...

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

You need a awesome dude to end ignorance, And one year old kid cannot write those verses as guru granth sahib is not divided by chapters its divided my Music, 1400 pages of divine music. It's not about the message its about the bliss and experience one has by singing Guru granth sahib, 1 year old kid can't write such a divine poetry, not even great poets also according to my view
Also even if a 10-15 year old kid understands the message, will he really implement the message? Then how to implement it is also answered in the text. Bible consists if many stories, quran, then there might be something u ought to be missing what all they want to convey. If every holy man came and said be good people we would be hundreds of jesuses and many more religions but we only got 5-6 different ones only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3DktnGUgY

 

[T3KTONIT]

will he really implement the message? Then how to implement it is also answered in the text. Bible consists if many stories, quran, then there might be something u ought to be missing what all they want to convey.

The implementation of the message is what differentiates a good person from a bad one.

If every holy man came and said be good people we would be hundreds of jesuses and many more religions but we only got 5-6 different ones only.

If we assume that Jesus, Mohammed and other prophets were holy men, then why they didn't succeed in their time to convince people to follow them easily?, why did they have to exploit the trust, and bribe the poor, and invade people and get them out of their houses and force them to accept their faiths?
If you're saying a normal man would accept a "holy man"'s words easily, i very much doubt that.., because how is he going to know that he is really a "holy man", and when we talk about a "holy man" we talk about a man sent from god to deliver his message right?, Buddha wasn't a holy man, and he himself claimed that he is not a god, yet he has the most influential ideas ever!

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

The implementation of the message is what differentiates a good person from a bad one.If we assume that Jesus, Mohammed and other prophets were holy men, then why they didn't succeed in their time to convince people to follow them easily?, why did they have to exploit the trust, and bribe the poor, and invade people and get them out of their houses and force them to accept their faiths?
If you're saying a normal man would accept a "holy man"'s words easily, i very much doubt that.., because how is he going to know that he is really a "holy man", and when we talk about a "holy man" we talk about a man sent from god to deliver his message right?, Buddha wasn't a holy man, and he himself claimed that he is not a god, yet he has the most influential ideas ever!

they did succeed to some extent, but to change a culture it takes time, to bring a real change it might take 1-2 centuries, that's why the 10 Sikh gurus came and they remained for 200+ years, and the whole course if Indian society was changed to a large extent, from 1400-1700

 

[iAnthony]

Religion just divides people  :computer_guy:

I live in a country dominated by christians but i dont believe in jesus

Even his birth sounds messed up. A virgin giving birth to a baby outside during winter season  :surprised:

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

Religion just divides people  :computer_guy:

I live in a country dominated by christians but i dont believe in jesus

Even his birth sounds messed up. A virgin giving birth to a baby outside during winter season  :surprised:

he was most likely to be a son of whore who came out to be a good guy

 

[T3KTONIT]

they did succeed to some extent, but to change a culture it takes time, to bring a real change it might take 1-2 centuries, that's why the 10 Sikh gurus came and they remained for 200+ years, and the whole course if Indian society was changed to a large extent, from 1400-1700

What is the goal of the 10 gurus?, is it to diffuse the religion, or is it to make all people live a moral life?

 

[Paul159]

he was most likely to be a son of whore who came out to be a good guy

Son of whore? are you kidding? He was born by Holy Spirit. Stop spreading misinformation

 

[[CVT]Te[R]minater]

What is the goal of the 10 gurus?, is it to diffuse the religion, or is it to make all people live a moral life?

all ppl live moral life, in their respective religions, but if they want to become Sikhs they can. the goal of the 10 gurus was to spread the true message to enough people until they become capable of spreading truth on their own, that is what Sikhs are doing.

[member=13605]Paul159[/member] What u are saying is completely unscientific, when Jesus was caught by the guys who went on to crucify him, they asked Jesus to do a miracle, he didn't do as he said that it would be against the law of nature, the same was asked to our Guru Tegh bahadur who before being beheaded by Muslims in Delhi was asked.
Hence all religions have one thing in common that is not to go against the nature.
Hence Jesus was not born of holy spirit , he was a guy who was born as all humans do.
The church has been spreading this bullshit for long.
He was the guy who was one with god, like our gurus were and he reflected God. Anyone of us humans can also become God like by good deeds and Most importantly by remembering his name. But only few attain the level of Jesus, Gurus etc.